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designing an improved offshore dredging barge, want to invest? >> any show on the discovery channel i'm in on. anything with discovery, i will invest. send your e-mail. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ i love this state. this feels good being back in michigan. you know, the trees are the right height. the streets are just right. i like the fact that most of the cars i see are detroit-made automobiles. i drive a mustang and a chevy pickup truck. anne drives a couple of cadillacs, actually. and i used to have a dodge truck. i used to have all three covered. >> i can't be perfect. i just am who i am, and i can tell you this, with regards to the cars we have, that's something that was talked about last september. people asked us what vehicles we

own and we have a car that we have in california, we've got a car we have back in boston where our other home is. that's the way it is. if people think there's something wrong with being successful in america, then they better vote for the other guy because i've been extraordinarily successful and i want to use that success and know-how to help the american people. >> well, here we go, it is 6:00 on the east coast. welcome to "morning joe." good morning, everyone. it's monday, february 27th, and we've got a lot to talk about today. with us onset, we have the former governor of pennsylvania and nbc news political analyst ed rendell. we have msnbc and "time" magazine political analyst mark haleprin. we have adjunct senior fellow at the council on foreign relations dan senor. very handsome title. and from washington, political editor and white house correspondent for the "huffington post," sam stein. and so much to get to this morning. willie, good to see you. >> good to be back, mika. >> i feel like it's been years.

>> it has been. >> it's terrible. don't do that. we've got mitt romney talking about cars and trees. and dan, i'll let you take that one on. rick santorum over the weekend doubling down on his criticism to the president about whether or not it's great for people to go to college, i don't get that. also his comments about the separation of church and state. kind of a disconnect between what the republican candidates are talking about and what i think we want to hear about. i could be wrong. did anyone see the oscars? okay. >> part. >> most of it. >> you're supposed to be the expert, aren't you? >> we wake up at 2:00 in the morning. >> we will cover it, though, we have all the highlights. but first, we've got the primary tomorrow and the republican candidates are talking about the issue of afghanistan. we'll get to their comments, but first the latest on that because the u.s. military is pledging to push ahead with its mission in afghanistan as officials there try to contain an exploding cycle of violence triggered by last week's inadvertent burning

of muslim holy books. just this morning, another nine people were killed in a suicide bombing at a military airport. it has been nearly a week since coalition forces attempted to destroy a truck load of islamic books and writings that were being used by detainees at the base to trade extremist messages and literature. u.s. officials say the troops didn't realize they were throwing away copies of the koran despite apologies, the backlash of the incident is unrelenting. at least 30 people have died in six days of protests and revenge attacks, including this morning's bombing at the gates of an airport used by the international forces in the eastern part of the country. seven u.s. soldiers were wounded yesterday further north when a protester hurled a grenade. two american troops killed earlier in the week. and on saturday, two military

officers were murdered at point-blank range inside the afghan interior ministry. a man hunt is now underway for a low-level afghan government worker who the taliban claims was working for them. so let's start our coverage this morning with nbc news chief pentagon correspondent with the very latest and how this affects our relationship and plans to pull back with coalition forces. >> you know, mika, this is the worst possible situation for u.s. military on the ground there in afghanistan. after all, the u.s. has to work side-by-side with armed afghan military and police if they're ever going to enact the withdrawal plan that has been proposed by president obama to have all u.s. troops out of there by 2014. but after the shooting of the two officers at the interior ministry on saturday, both general john allen, the top u.s. commander there in afghanistan

and ambassador ryan crocker pulled all u.s. personnel out of the ministries. again, a critical part of any u.s. strategy if they intend to have the mission succeed there. but over the weekend, the ambassador asked everybody to step back and take a deep breath. >> tensions are running very high here, and i think we need to let things calm down, return to a more normal atmosphere and then get on with business. and it doesn't mean that we're not doing business now. we are. with both military counterparts and civilian counterparts. again, these are terrible tragedies. and very worthy of the condemnation they've received. but this is not the time to decide that we're done here. we've got redouble our efforts, we've got to create a situation in which al qaeda is not coming back. >> but it's difficult to see how

you return to a normal atmosphere as the ambassador suggested there any time soon. after all, again, a key to any success there is to train up the afghan military and security forces, think of yourself, mika, or willie, as a soldier who has to work beside, fight beside, and in some cases sleep beside an afghan soldier not knowing what's going on in their mind and what they may do next, willie. >> and even bigger picture here, americans watching this say this is the military, these are the security forces, and this is the government that we're supposed to turn ourselves over to within a couple of years. how can that ever happen with any basis of trust? >> well, you know, u.s. military and, in fact, state department officials will argue that those who are killing american soldiers and others in these demonstrations and protests represent a small minority of

the overall afghan security forces and government officials working with the americans. but as we've seen here, a small minority can inflict an awful lot of damage. >> thank you very much, to the political side of this. as the controversy over the burning of the korans continues, the top contenders for the republican nomination are hammering president obama for offering an apology over the incident. >> i think you highlight it when you apologize for it. you make it sound like there was something that you should apologize for. and there's -- there was no act that needed an apology. it was an inadvertent act and it should have been left at that. >> with regards to the apology, i think for a lot of people, this sticks in their throat. the idea that we're there having lost thousands of individuals to casualty and death. we've made an enormous contribution to help the people there achieve freedom. and for us to be apologizing at

a time like this is something very difficult for the american people to count -- >> dan senor, here we go. first of all, your candidate's mitt romney, but i'm going to ask you to explain rick santorum to me. my understanding is he's all about respect for religion. maybe that only applies to his own? >> well, i think you have to -- the context of what actually happened. no one was actually at bagram at this detention center, no one is trying to disrespect religion. the situation was that the korans were being used to pass incendiary messages from one inmate to another. so they collected this information, including the korans, threw them into a pile and someone accidentally inadvertently burned them up. it definitely was a mistake, it was worthy of addressing. general allen addressed it. he apologized. the problem is, was it necessary for the president to take it to

a whole other level? the president apologizes, the department of defense, sends an acting assistant secretary to apologize. i think what puts some people off is the context in which we're in a constant stream of apologizing. this administration. every other week -- >> dan, dan -- >> there's an apology for something america does. it was inadvertent, it was an honest mistake and the commanding general on the ground apologized, period. >> what am i missing? because, for example, willie, i'll let you take it. let's say the american flag was inadvertently burned, would that not require an apology? from another leader? if the same scenario -- >> no, because americans wouldn't go in the streets and start killing -- >> no, they wouldn't. >> people that were trying to rebuild -- >> but this is religious -- >> you understand someone who has worked alongside a wartime president. president obama will say and do anything he has to do to protect american and nato forces on the ground, even if that includes apologizing as president bush did after an incident in 2008.

>> if president obama actually believes this apology is going to tame down the violence, then, of course, it's worth doing anything. that's not the case here, the president apologizes, the surrogates apologize, the commanding general on the ground apologizes, the violence is still spiralling pretty much out of control right now. the bigger question is, what are we going to do going forward in afghanistan? what's our strategy? that's what we should be talking about, not trying to play gotcha with these republican presidential candidates. >> or how about, exactly, how about criticizing the apology as a sign of weakness. i think, mark haleprin, it's fair to say this president's been pretty tough on foreign policy. and i think he has some leverage to apologize without being criticized or -- what do you think? >> regardless of party, nothing disgusts me more than the politicalization of american national security when the country needs to think as a group about what's going on in afghanistan. and dan was very measured in

describing the nature of what the threshold is for an apology. i think the commander in chief deserves a lot of deference in any situation as president bush did to try to figure out how to deal with this. very tough, multifacetted situation of which the burning of the korans is one piece, but the death of american servicemen is such a symbolic and important moment that's where all of our leaders should have their focus. >> it's horrific what's happening there. absolutely horrific. >> yeah, i agree with willie. i think the president did it out of a desire to tamp down all of this stuff and protect our troops, and that's a proper thing for him to do. more importantly, we should start an organization called g-o-n-e, gone. get out now. we're not doing any good. when we leave, al qaeda's going to come back in regardless of how long we stay, we should not

risk any additional american lives. get out now. we've got a big primary tomorrow night. >> i want to get sam in on this. michigan and arizona primaries are tomorrow, of course. mitt romney adding to his ranks of supporters picking up the endorsement of jan brewer. she will support mitt romney in that state. she did that yesterday on "meet the press." called romney, "the only person who can go in and win." the latest polls show romney with a big lead in arizona. 43% support him according to this new ppp poll, rick santorum at 26%. in michigan, the number's much tighter. the latest poll shows romney and santorum in a statistical tie there. the last couple of weeks of campaigning have hurt santorum's image with michigan voters a bit. the former pennsylvania senator's favorability rating dropped from 63% to 57%. rising from 23% to 37%. that's a net decline of 29

points. republicans now say they have an unfavorable view of santorum in michigan. romney took a break from campaigning in michigan to go to yesterday's showcase nascar race the daytona 500, there was rain, it's been postponed. romney got a close-up view of the cars. the photograph here, the number 26 car, sponsored, you can see on the back end by rick santorum. romney's attempt, though, to connect with the average nascar voter backfired a bit when he was asked by a reporter whether or not he follows the sport. romney answered this way. not as closely as some of the most ardent fans, but i have so great friends who are nascar team owners. sam stein, let's pause there. set us up here on monday morning. where are we a day ahead of michigan and arizona? >> well, i think the ppp polls are generally in line of what we've been seeing for a couple of days now, which is that the negative attacks in michigan have driven down santorum's

numbers, romney's numbers are about the same, but looks like he's going to eke out a win there, in large part because of early voting. a lot of michigan voters have voted. the issue is huge. in arizona, it's going to be more of a blowout, which is more consequential because it's a winner take all state with respect to delegates. i think that nascar comment gets at the predominant theme, which is mitt romney continues to have these weird problems connecting with people. and i know it's sort of trivial to focus on these things, but when you say you know the nascar team owners, it doesn't ring as every day man style. and i think that's the big problem going forward. you saw a lot of chatter over the weekend about still people talking about brokered conventions. and at this moment, you would expect the conversation to have moved well beyond that, but the fact we're still here gets to how weakened mitt romney is by this process. >> mark haleprin, what about the last couple of weeks for rick santorum? he was there over the weekend

again asked and answering questions contraception the role of church and state. >> neither of these candidates is closing strong. they're both off message, neither of them is talking about the economy or framing the contrast with obama particularly well. if you're a republican, you have to be discouraged about that. if either of them were closing strong, you would say they were going to win michigan. but the potential of crossover voting which gets talked about a lot, michigan's about the only place in the country where we see the democrats union driven. >> let's see if this connects, ed rendell, rick santorum talks about education. but he took aim at president obama for his push to send american students to college. here is senator santorum on the campaign trail over the weekend. >> president obama once said he wants everybody in america to go to college. what a snob.

there are good, decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor and trying to indoctrinate them. i understand why he wants you to go to college. he wants to remake you in his image. i want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image, not his. >> every kid doesn't want to go to college, but i think we should aspire to let every child reach his maximum or her maximum potential. and if senator santorum's against that, i don't think that makes sense. and i don't think the president's over the line for saying that. >> what was that an attempt to do? and i've got to be very careful. but i can imagine the white house is sitting back thinking, this is going to be too easy.

>> mika too's a snob. she's part of the problem. that rick santorum's talking about. >> help me, ed. what was -- all right. i'll just flatly ask you. is there anything wrong with that comment by rick santorum? >> well, first of all, this is truly a race to the bottom in michigan. santorum hasn't been hurt by romney's negative ads, he's been hurt by himself over the last two weeks. that's clear. this is just nuts. i think what he's trying to do -- if you -- if you didn't have a clip in there that what happens i think he quoted a percentage of college students believe less in god or religion after they've gone to college. that was sort of theme, the title altogether. but rick santorum should know better. he used an example of a plumber. well, today a plumber needs to know how to operate a word processor, high technology, and postgraduate is crucial. and every parent in america

hopes their daughter or son goes to college. >> it's -- >> he's absolutely nuts. >> part of the american dream. and the comment about liberal professors trying to indoctrinate students, it's getting too far off. but he talked about religion, sam stein, so maybe that's where we'll find some traction here. >> has there ever been a less appealing candidate for the youth vote? here's a guy for -- well, he's anti-contraception and anti-college. if i were a young kid, i'd be appalled. >> let's hear. >> wait a second. is he weaker with college students or women? which is he weaker with? >> well, one last thing before we go to break. take a listen to this because santorum triggered a debate by questioning the separation of church and state. specifically referring to comments made by president john f. kennedy back in 1960. >> i don't accept the view my church would place the pressure

on me. i don't think there's any evidence for that in the united states. the constitution is very clear. in the separation of church of state and i've been very clear and precise in my commitments to that constitution not merely because i take the oath which is taken to god but also because i happen to believe it represents the happiest arrangement for the organization of a society. >> i don't believe in an america where church and state is absolute. the idea the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely an thet call. to say people of faith have no role in the public square. you bet that makes you throw up. what kind of country do we live that says only people of nonfaith can come in the public square and make their case? >> sam stein, are we seeing something new with all of these comments? or is this basically the light shining on him finally and everyone seeing him for what he is.

and what is it telling us? >> i think it's more the light shining on him. santorum in the senate was much more akin to this type of person we're seeing now than the santorum on the campaign trail previously. and i think governor rendell's right, when he was focusing on manufacturing issues, jobs, the need to rebuild the economy, that's when he was at his best. and you know, whether it's because he himself is talking about the social issues and religion or the media's pressing him on it or a combination of the two, it's really actually sort of lessened his stride a little bit here. and i think we're seeing the effects of it in the michigan polling because this is a state that's turned into an economic message. >> we'll look at the polls coming up. but mark haleprin, war game tomorrow night in michigan and arizona as it looks now. >> whatever the result is, it's going to require the loser to spin the result. this is going on, no result that will occur tomorrow will end it. but if romney loses michigan, he's going to have to have a compelling explanation as to

why. if santorum loses it, he's going to have to explain how he can go forward. super tuesday is still wide open, the race is wide open, and neither of these candidates is performing particularly well. they're both in a position to start to talk about the economy and national security and real issues. and if they do, they'll be the nominee, i think, at this point. >> the difference is in previous elections, if one of them lost badly tomorrow, or even close, it's likely the loser would run out of money would have to get out of the race and wither. this is what's different about 2012, you can lose and stay in forever because these super pacs keep fuel for your message. >> but also because no one has a hold -- >> but even still. if someone were winning, even if it wasn't closing, it would make it harder and harder for the person who hasn't been winning to raise dough. and this environment is different. we'll bring in senator dick durbin, scott walker of wisconsin, governor bev perdue,

and ed gillespie. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. good morning to you, mika. and one of the biggest events of the day yesterday got rained out, the daytona 500, the super bowl of racing. they're going to try to do that today at noon, but it's not very promising. all the green there is areas of light rain continuing to stream off the gulf. may get an opportunity a little later this afternoon. but the odds of this race starting at noon as scheduled looks doubtful at this time. as far as the forecast goes, we've got a snowstorm heading for the northern plains. ending february with a bit of a bang. blizzard conditions likely through the dakotas, minnesota, and possibly wisconsin. and all that messy weather heading through michigan into new england come tuesday night into wednesday. keep that in mind for your midweek plans. today, gorgeous day along d.c. and the east coast. just that rain in florida. we'll deal with that snowstorm in the days ahead. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ if you want it you got it

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♪ all right. i just -- i can't get over that story. you might have to tell it. but i want to know what happened to you. so you sohold off on that one. let's take a look at the morning papers. from the "new york times," russian television is reporting that us and ukrainian intelligence have successfully thwarted a plot to assassinate vladimir putin. the suspects were arrested in the ukraine. officials say they were plotting to kill putin in moscow immediately after the march 4th presidential election.

"financial times," the federal trial for one of the worst offshore oil spill tragedies in recent history has been delayed. now bp will get another week to try to come to a settlement deal. penalties could top $50 billion if bp is found grossly negligent. a new gallup poll shows president obama's mandate is hurting his chances at reelection. 43% of those surveyed say they are much less likely to vote for obama because of the bill while 15% say they're much more likely to vote for him because of it. the compound where osama bin laden spent his final days was leveled over the weekend. debris remains on-site, but the space apparently will be turned into a park. with us now the chief white house correspondent from politico, mike allen with a look at the playbook. >> good morning and happy monday. >> happy monday to you.

you have political fresh polls out. new battleground information from you guys and george washington, what are you seeing? >> well, what we're seeing is the hole that the republican nominee is likely to be in. and just how strong president obama is looking. it's happened slowly, so we haven't really realized it. and i think we have some numbers here for the politico. we can see that president obama is weeding both republicans, first mitt romney about ten points, also leading rick santorum by about ten points. and here's the amazing stat in this poll. and here's the real story for republicans going forward. and that is looking at how this race has affected mitt romney among independents. just crushing him. how many independents look favorably at mitt romney. we see just a third. 33% of independents. the people who will decide the election in november. 51% of independents, half of them viewing him unfavorably.

and now look at the consequences of that when we see obama matched up with romney among independents 49% going to obama have less than a third 27% to mitt romney. primaries are going to bring out the sort of base appeal of the candidate. but this shows if mitt romney becomes the nominee and most people expect he still will, this shows how much work he's going to have to do. >> obama up ten points on mitt romney and the independent number up 22 points among independents. did they tell you more about president obama? or about the field of republican candidates? >> well, they're both. and we're seeing the residual appeal for president obama. i've always said all those people who voted for obama in 2008 are not suddenly going to say to themselves we were wrong. they're going to look for reasons that they liked president obama and he's reminding them of that.

so president obama who has been criticized by a lot of republicans and independents how he governed is back in campaign mode which is his strength. republicans recognize that they're going against one of the great campaigners of the century, and we can see in these numbers why it's going to be such a battle and why just a few months ago you would have said, today you would definitely say that president obama is the favorite in november. >> you know independent voters very well around the philadelphia area, what goes into a number like that where you see the president 22 points up against mitt romney. >> well, there's been no focus on the record, which is amazing. you'd think as mark said that would be the crux of the republican primary campaign. but it's gotten way off track. i think there's a reset after the conventions. and if any of my fellow democrats are looking at those numbers and saying this is going to be a breeze, they're ignoring the fact there's a reset. people will -- let's assume romney's the candidate.

people will say, well, i've heard bad things about this guy romney and he had a negative campaign. but let me start listening. and if he can make the case and it depends where the economy is, what's going on in iran, where gas prices are. if he can make the case, look, president obama's a good guy, but his record is one of failure. we've got to change. i don't think we should be so overconfiden overconfident. >> they see off-message, but there's a long way to go. >> democrats shouldn't get giddy. there hasn't been scrutiny on obama, and given his gap should be greater. and there's a great piece similar, and i just -- you know, democrats could have a false sense of consciousness right now. at some point, there's going to be a republican, obama, and a stage between one of them. >> and that reset you're talking about comes before the

conventions, that second look at romney if he's the nominee will start to come after he's solidified as the nominee, right? so he has a number of months. >> senator obama had that two months leading up to the convention after hillary pulled out where he could redefine himself. so all that's going to occur. if any democrat's out there ordering tickets for the inaugural ball, you shouldn't do it. >> coming up, the big winner at last night's oscars, some would say. >> what? >> that guy? i don't think so. >> no, why is he doing that? >> the french guy with the movie where they don't talk. little red carpet stunt from the former borat. more "morning joe" when we come back. this is delicious okay... is this where we're at now? we just eat whatever tastes good? like these sweet honey clusters... actually there's a half a day's worth of fiber in every ...

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all right. time for a little sports. we told you earlier, no daytona 500 yesterday, they're going to try to run that today at noon, but it's raining again today down there. so we're left with the nba all-star game. in orlando, lebron james playing, of course, for the east. a left-handed throwdown, 36 points, led the east, big come back down the stretch. chris paul through the legs to his teammate, and the clippers

blake griffin. setting 88 points in the second half. kobe bryant, gives him 264 career all-star points, he passes michael jordan as the all-time leading all-star scorer. kevin durant had 36-7. 152-149. the jeremy lin-sanity has taken over all aspects of our lives including our desserts. recently a boston-area ben and jerry's released the flavor taste the lin-sanity described as a limited edition of a vanilla frozen yogurt that included honey swirls and here's the thing to focus in, little pieces of fortune cookie. some customers did not appreciate the fortune cookies in the flavor. the store pulled it instead replacing the cookies with waffle bits. the manager of that store explained the switch by saying the fortune cookies were too soggy for the ice cream but later in the formal apology

here's what they said, we obviously were not looking to offend anybody and the majority of the feedback about it has been positive. i guess some people were offended there were pieces of fortune cookie in the lin-sanity frozen yogurt. >> yeah. i could see a problem there. >> it would be an awful-tasting. >> wouldn't be a big seller. >> and i'm a man who has had sandwiches named after him. i've had two rendellis. bacon, lettuce, tomato -- >> ed, no. you need a new -- there needs to be a new rendelli. >> a vegan rendelli. >> exactly. all beans. up next, mika's cooking up a pot of must-read opinion pages. we'll bring them to you when we come back.

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creamy, dreamy peanut butter taste in a tempting new cereal. mmm! [ female announcer ] new multi-grain cheerios peanut butter. ♪ live look at capitol hill. a pretty shot this monday morning at 43 past the hour. time now for a look at the must-read opinion pages. two big primaries tomorrow night, michigan and arizona. and the latest polls show romney with a sizable lead in arizona with 43% support. mitt romney 17 points ahead of rick santorum there. in michigan, though, the numbers suggest a much tighter race. and this is romney's semi-home state. the latest public policy poll shows romney and santorum in a statistical tie in the state. so a lot of the opinion pages are about the republican candidates given the fact we're upon a primary. so i'm going to read maureen

dowd and kathleen parker and see if you can see any difference between them. the contenders in the hester prim primaries are tripping over one another trying to be the most radical, unreasonable, and insane candidate they can be. they pounce on any traces of sanity in the other candidates. be it humanity toward women, compassion toward immigrants, or the willingness to make the rich pay a nickel more in taxes. and try to destroy them with it. the republicans with their crazed reagan fixation or a last gasp party fighting battles on sex, race, immigration, and public education long ago won by the other side. they're trying to roll back the clock. but time is passing them by. that's maureen dowd. here's kathleen parker. different ideological perspective between the two. but she says, obama's dream is

to run against santorum. let me be blunt. if republicans nominate rick santorum to run for president, they will lose. the prospect of four more years of president barack obama holds some appeal for many americans, but probably not for most republicans. it may give doubters among them some comfort, however, to know that obama and santorum share the same prayer. that santorum be the republican nominee. it gives me no pleasure to wrap santorum a man i know and respect even if i disagree with him on some issues. not that he minds, he's a scrapper who loves a fight and he forgives. bottom line, santorum is a good man, he's just a good man in the wrong century. willie. >> sam stein, it's the age old question. do you want somebody who checks all the boxes, ideologically pure for you or the guy who swings more to the middle and can win you the election and unseat the sitting president? >> yeah, and you know, one of the fascinating comments from the past week was what jeb bush said, you know, i used to think

of myself conservative and i don't think i've changed, but maybe the party's changing around me. and i think that's the sense people get watching this past couple of weeks debate. whether it's on contraception or the snobbery of trying to get a college education or immigration reform. this republican primary politics has done what every process does, pulls people toward the base. but in the case of this republican primary, it's gone further than it seems in the past. and, you know, i think the columnists, the fact they're on both sides of the ideological divide says something they both recognize what's going on here. >> mark haleprin? >> well, you look at what happened with george bush when he won the nomination and got elected, he didn't let himself get pulled over to the right. and i think one of the weaknesses mitt romney exhibited, he's just felt compelled to go to the right and even on issues where he hasn't gone that way, for instance, capital gains tax rate for the wealthiest americans shouldn't be eliminated, he's not made it

a symbolic fight. he's tried to sneak it in. >> it's hard for mitt romney because people don't know -- there is a narrative where people don't know what he really believes. >> i would say, mark, also, there were a lot of conservatives -- read the "wall street journal" editorial page basically saying that mitt romney's only chance would be to distance himself from his health care plan in massachusetts. and he hasn't, he's defended it. he says it's not the one size fit all model for the country, but he says it worked in massachusetts. that is not what movement conservatives and free-market conservatives are pushing romney to do. i think there are examples of him not just toeing the line as that line moves further and further to the right. >> if he were to distance himself, wouldn't people say, look, he'll do anything for political advantage. >> look, that's a separate issue. i'm simply -- under your argument, every one of these politicians is getting moved to the right. whether principle lies there or not. i'm simply saying, there are

some issues which are political liabilities for him. in some cases like cryptonite. >> mitt romney would've come out looking good if on the virginia law the evasive law he said, look, this is going too far, folks, let's get back on track. he would've looked so great, like a leader. >> with conviction, it's not hard, is it? >> i actually think he looks fine, i think, in the heat of these primaries there's a tendency everyone gets moved to their ideological extremes. bush may have been an exception in 2000, he was running against john mccain. >> save it for the top of the hour. willie takes us through the big moments from last night's oscar awards. we'll be right back. the employee of the month is...

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is it time? >> it's time for the news you can't use. that means the oscars. full disclosure, i saw one of the movies. >> i saw some. >> i saw "the help." >> i saw "descendents." >> there were some movies i was amazed made it. the tree of life? >> mitt romney would like that. >> don't sit in judgment.

you're a snob. >> was it the right height? >> that took me a second. >> took me a second. >> ed got it right away. let's look at some of the winners. here's the deal, "the artist" swept five awards taking home best picture. that's the best picture. "the artist." it's the mostly silent black and white film, the first wordless movie to win the top honor since 1929. >> how can you say it's mostly wordless and then say it's silent? >> the first oscars since 1929. the film for best actor jean dujardin, best score, best costume design. the other big winners, best original screen play went to woody allen for midnight in paris. he did not show up. best original song brett

mckenzie, octavia spencer won for "the help." and best actress was meryl streep for her role as margaret thatcher in "the iron lady." a bit of an upset there. >> of course. >> that movie really -- >> so i hear. the award puts her in an elite group of three oscar winners. she's the most nominated performer in oscar history. here's the beginning of her speech. >> thank you, thank you. i -- when they called my name, i had this feeling i could hear half of america going, oh, no -- oh, come on, why? her again, you know? but, whatever. >> that was good. >> some people thought viola davis was going to win for "the help," so bit of an upset. this is for you and you only.

angelina jolie in the house with her husband brad pitt who was nominated. >> oh, my. >> watch the pose when she comes out. she's got the leggy dress. >> so she'll stand up straight and be a lady. >> boom, get it out there. get it out there. >> why is she doing that? is she joking? >> no, that's all business right there. that's glamour, that's glitz. now, so the guy she was presenting the awards to for best adapted screen play, having a little fun with jolie's pose. >> i'm alexander. we bowed to our fellow nominees. >> how about that, called her out for best adapted screen play, that was for "the descendents." >> one of the best speeches. >> alexander payne was the middle man. side by side, pretty good. pretty good work.

one of the most talked about moments of the night happened beforehand on the red carpet. sasha baron cohen was temporarily banned for fear of a publicity stunt. turns out those fears were warranted. he rolled up at the red carpet dressed as "the dictator," his next character in a movie. and he came with what he said were kim jong-il's ashes. >> is coming to the oscars one of the best perks of whatever it is your job is? >> yes. it gave me an opportunity to bring my dear friend and doubles tennis partner kim jong-il. it was his dream to come to the oscars, and to be sprinkled over the red carpet and over halle berry's chest again. the interesting thing is actually it's -- oh, sorry.

you've got -- you've got kim jong-il -- wait a minute. we need to clean this up. it's fine, it's okay for you. no, if somebody ask you what you are wearing, you will say kim jong-il. >> have fun this evening. >> dragged away by -- didn't see that coming. we don't have the picture yet, but we're going to get it. >> i watched the red carpet with my daughters and bradley cooper came up with a mustache. i immediately e-mailed him and wrote, oh, no, that has got to go. >> right, you see somebody in the oscars -- >> he wrote back. >> i didn't think he had his blackberry. >> he wrote back, the stache, it's for a movie, come on, it's not that terrible. i had to tell him it was. >> it's always for a role. >> we love him. >> you're exposing yourself, willie, she actually has an iphone. you would know that if -- >> all right. >> by the way, he says he's

comfortable with it. >> he is. he's a good man that bradley cooper. >> what a world. like an interactive oscar viewing experience, you can sit there and watch the red carpet and text the people. >> i thought he should go shave quickly before he went in there. he had time to save himself. >> mika's ripping the poor guy and he's about to go on stage in front of millions of people. andrea mitchell coming up, keep it on "morning joe." losing weight clicked for us when we realized

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♪ with regards to the apology, i think for a lot of people this sticks in their throat. the idea that we're there having lost thousands of individuals to casualty and death. we've made an enormous contribution to help the people there achieve freedom, and for us to be apologizing at a time like this is something which is very difficult for the american people to count -- >> i think you highlight when you apologize for it. you make it sound like there was something that you should apologize for. there was no act that needed an apology for. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at that beautiful shot of new york city as the sun comes up this morning. happy monday, everybody. top of the hour, still with us, former governor ed rendell, mark

haleprin. we have dan senor, and sam stein and joining us now also from washington, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. great morning to have you on. a lot going on in terms of foreign policy news. we're going to be talking politics and looking ahead to the primaries. also, i want to talk to you, dan, about the power of the donald trump endorsement. apparently since trump has endorsed mitt romney, it's moved the needle a little bit. >> is that where you traced it? >> i swear to god. but we've got a lot -- what's that, alex? oh, scott walker ahead in a few minutes, as well. we'll talk about what's going on in his state and how it might affect the national landscape -- >> he could use a trump endorsement. >> he needs one. i'm going to have donald call him. the u.s. military is pledging to push ahead with its mission in

afghanistan as officials there try to contain an exploding cycle of violence triggered by last week's inadvertent burning of holy books. another nine people were killed in a suicide bombing in a military airport. it's been nearly a week since coalition forces attempted to destroy a truck load of islamic books and writings being used to detain -- u.s. officials say the troops didn't realize they were throwing away copies of the koran. despite repeated apologies, including one from president obama on thursday, the backlash over the incident is unrelenting. at least 30 people have died in six days of protests and revenge attacks. including this morning's bombing at the gates of an airport used by international forces in the eastern part of the country. seven u.s. soldiers were wounded yesterday further north when a protester hurled a grenade.

and on saturday, two u.s. military officers were murdered at point-blank range inside the afghan interior ministry. a man hunt is now underway for a low-level afghan government worker who the taliban claims was working for them, willie. >> andrea, let's start with you on this. the achievement of trust is proving, again, something perhaps an unachievable goal, which is something we've counted on as we've looked to hand this over on afghan security forces and to president karzai's government. what has happened in the last week to destroy that trust? >> everything that has happened in the last week has worked to destroy that trust. and now you've got perhaps the bravest u.s. ambassador ever. remember, he was the ambassador when beirut, when the embassy was bombed in beirut. he has a track record going through pakistan and iraq and all of our toughest assignments.

and he's pulled the civilians out of these ministries, as well. you have no military and no civilian embedded diplomats working with these ministries as well as france, britain, and germany have also pulled their military and diplomats out of the afghan ministries. so the nato mission is completely undermined and you'll have countervailing pressures. as we head to a meeting that was supposed to be a capstone for president obama in may, you're going to have pressures, france talking about an withdrawal. pressures to withdraw more quickly, at the same time as you have republican hawks and other defense hawks in the u.s. saying that this means you have to stay longer and those are -- that's the squeeze play that the president's going to be in. >> dan senor, what is the benefit at this point of staying longer? is there any possibility that in one year, two years, five years, ten years the scene will be different than it is today? >> what's the alternative? it's the same question, the same

problem that vexed president obama in the late summer and early fall of 2009 when he was contemplating what to do going forward in the afghan strategy. and every scenario he was presented with, he would say how does this help us meet our objectives? which is preventing afghanistan and preventing pakistan from becoming failed states that terror groups could seize on the vacuum. and create a staging ground that could pose a threat to the region, pose a threat to us like it has many times before. that challenge was the case three or four years ago. that challenge was the case ten years ago, that challenge was the case even after this koran burning incident. what's the alternative? what are we going to leave behind? are we going to leave an embassy behind with a handful of troops like we have in iraq? my question for you is, the obama administration's whole strategy for the transition going forward was embedding advisers, actually getting u.s. forces out of these combat roles and being in these advisory

roles working with the civilians and afghan military. if now we can't even have our forces and our personnel be in advisory roles, what is possibly left for a post combat transition? >> well, that is the critical question. that's what we're seeing actually in iraq. because the notion in iraq was we were going to leave this large group of civilians, contractors, and diplomats in an embassy that many say was built way too large and that was going to be the post war combat role iraq. and already we've seen we were unable to negotiate a status forces agreement to stay beyond, and now we're talking about downsizing that. >> all right. >> isn't that really what we face in afghanistan? and people are going to begin to ask the question, i think, mika, that you're about to ask. why stay? well, the answer, the quick answer here in afghanistan is pakistan, what happens to pakistan? and the larger fight against al qaeda, against the taliban. >> these are enormous questions,

enormous issues. and i guess i'd like to hear from sam stein, mark haleprin, and ed rendell. take it one at a time here. we are hearing from the republican candidates, criticizing the president for apologizing. seems like such a small sliver of the issue, and i'd really like to hear from the candidates thoughtful ideas, exchange as to what to do with these countries, with each potential scenario that could lay out and how exactly we can sort of extricate ourselves from this situation without leaving the work, the work that we've done there high and dry. sam, you go first. >> i mean, you basically said the whole point which is the whole debate over whether or not an apology was warranted is so trivial when you think about it in the context of the weightier issues over what exactly we're doing in afghanistan a decade into the war. and you know, there are great disagreements over this. they exist within the democratic party, the republican party, but the question remains, you know, as people who are trying to assume the office of the

presidency, do you continue to push a policy that seems inherently unworkable, which is to get these people to buy into the notion that u.s.-sponsored state building can work? and i just don't know how anyone ten years out can really argue that one way or the other with serious conviction at this point. >> mark haleprin, i would think the republicans would do mightily well strategically by urging the president to get out of there because getting out is going to be hard. get it done on his watch. >> there were some republicans who didn't run for president who thought that might be an effective political thing to do and the right thing to do. look, there are experts like dan on national security and foreign policy who make the point, the alternatives are challenging. but, again, i've talked to many experts about it. intuitively, this doesn't make sense. there's not leadership there in that country that will be a reliable partner. we've seen how difficult the military mission is. we've seen how endangered our american men and women are

fighting there. i don't understand why there isn't a plan to change this rally after all this time. i just don't. >> ed? >> i think it's very simple. andrea said we've got to stay and protect pakistan. we leave two years from now, the vacuum's created, pakistan's not protected. it doesn't matter when we leave, that vacuum's going to be creatcreate ed. get out now before we lose another american fighting man or woman. get out now. >> we've got to get to governor scott walker joining us now from washington. governor scott walker, you're there for the governors association conference which i look forward to hearing about. but let's talk about, scott, what's happening in your state because we've got some new polls, our nbc news battleground map shows wisconsin has moved from a toss-up to lean democrat from last november. what do you make of that? and what do you say to some who might think that's a little bit due to you? >> well, oddly enough, it might

be, you think about the three years prior to my taking office we had lost 150,000 private sector jobs, it's a new day in wisconsin. this past year, we've seen more jobs created than lost and an unemployment rate not only down from a year ago, it's down the lowest since 2008. so i think as people realize it's a new day, we've still got a lot of work to do. but i think any times the economy's showing signs of relief, it's probably a benefit to any incumbent. whether it's me, a local official, or the president. and in the end, that's something i and the president will have to discuss in our campaigns in 2012. >> do you find yourself in the middle of this mired in a recall election. the latest marquette poll has you 47% approved, 47% disapprove, split right down the middle in the state of wisconsin. this could be a long fight for you. scheduled elections scheduled to take place in june, primary in may. how distracted are you from doing the business of wisconsin by trying to essentially win reelection in the middle of your

term? >> well, we're focused, but it's a huge distraction not just for me, but the legislature, it's $9 million of the taxpayer money just to run this. think of the number of kids and seniors we could help in our state with $9 million we didn't have to waste on this frivolous recall election. but really, i mean, in the end, i think it's amazing after a year of being attacked by out of state special interests that tens of millions of dollars that were poured in. the fact we're ahead of any of the democrats in the race bodes well for the election. but i had to work hard to earn the trust of the majority of people in my state two years ago, i'm going to have to work harder to earn that trust. and in the end, when they see it is a new day, wisconsin, we've got a lot of work to do to get this state working even better, i think elections are about the future and we paint the picture of contrast do we want to go forward or do we want to go back to the days of the tax increases

and the record job loss. that's really at stake here. >> mark haleprin? >> governor, part of the problem in our politics now in dealing with afghanistan and education. everything else is the polarization of a lot of americans. president obama has become a polarizing figure. my e-mail box is filled we mails from labor unions and officials, have you given up being a unifying figure? non-polarizing figure in the context of wisconsin politics? and if not, how can you win back people who now wake up every morning desperate to get you out of office? >> well, i think once we get past this recall election, once we get past things, i mean, we brought together, for example, in education, the state superintendent of public construction is independently elected, historically more elected with the teacher union and other advocates. but he cares about kids just like i care about my own two kids who go to public schools. we've worked together on a number of major education

reforms on teacher accountability, school district accountability, on the read to lead initiative. all the money being spent by out of state special interests and that's inflaming a lot of folks behind me in washington want us to get out. but i think in the state of wisconsin, people realize we're in this together and willing to work together to move forward on things like education reform and economic reform, keeping our budget balanced without massive layoffs like we've done. that's where we're going to be able to bring people together in our state. andrea? >> well, hi, governor, on that subject, what do you think of the debate that has evolved in the republican party? most recently rick santorum saying that president obama is being a snob for suggesting that all americans should at least have the option of college. and he was talking about vocational school and one year of higher education and community colleges, as well. but the whole notion that college is a snobbish aspiration as well as the conversation that

the states really don't have a role in education reform, it should be up to local communities. >> well, i think state and local governments much more so than the federal government. we talked a lot about this yesterday and there's common ground between republicans and democrats said amongst governors that's really a state -- it's a state and a local issue. and i'll set aside the politics. the reality is, people want results, and in most of our states, there needs to be a mix. we need more kids in colleges and universities, also more kids in our technical schools because increasingly in states like wisconsin, there are manufacturing jobs available, welding and high-skilled machining, we don't have enough bodies to fill those and we need to work hard -- i don't care whether it's the president or anyone else, i'll work with anyone that wants to help us do that. >> now sam stein has a question for you, governor. sam? >> i think it's fair to say that your campaign against workers, public bargaining rights was a distraction of sorts against the economy. what we're seeing from some of

the presidential candidates is they're getting distracted by issues much like that with contraception, with school, with college education. what kind of advice do you give to those people running for office about the, you know, ease with which you can get pulled off of a discussion with economy and jobs? >> well, and you know it. in the media, in political circles, it's easy to get off in tangents. in the end, what people care about, even if they haven't lost a job, they know a neighbor or friend, people care about the economy and they're concerned about it even with slight signs of improvement. and in the end, i think in any election in 2012, the candidate who best makes the case for how they're going to help the private sector in the state and in the country recover and recover the quickest is the candidate who's going to win. and you've got to focus every day. every day, every week, every month. we focus on what can we do? the help of the people in our state create more jobs. >> governor scott walker, it's good to see you.

thank you for being on the show. >> good to be with you, mika. i've still got to get connected with you for lunch. >> you do owe me lunch. i like it. thank you, governor. sam stein, thank you, as well. >> she schedules lunches with governor walker. >> we have conflict. we have things -- it's good -- >> she has arrived. >> you might need to schedule that lunch pretty quickly. >> why? you never know. he's scrappy. >> he'll be just fine. >> she's got nothing against former governors either. >> sam, thanks very much. >> thank you. we'll talk about the prospects of an extended primary fight with ed gillespie. [ jennifer garner ] there's a lot of beautiful makeup out there.

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♪

i actually love this state. this feels good. being back in michigan. you know, the trees are the right height, the streets are just right. i like the fact that most of the cars i see are detroit-made automobiles. i drive a mustang and a chevy pickup truck. anne drives a couple of cadillacs, actually. and i used to have a dodge truck. i used to have all three covered. >> i can't be perfect. i just am who i am and i can tell you this with regard to the cars we have, that's something that was talked about last september. people asked us what vehicles we own. and we have a car that we have in california and we've got a car that we have back in boston where our other home is. that's the way it is. if people think there's something wrong with being successful in america, then they better vote for the other guy because i've been extraordinarily successful and i want to use the success and know how to help the american people. >> oh, here with us now,

democratic senator from illinois, majority whip dick durbin, good to have you onboard. dan senor, though, i've got to go to you. there's something wrong with his people. >> what? >> okay. show the stadium shot. >> oh. >> there's something wrong. >> clearly. >> you don't do this. you don't do this when you're fighting for your life in your home state. >> i'm sure some folks around the table would disagree with the substance of his speech he delivered that day. but it was actually pretty powerful and pretty transformative. >> there's something wrong with his people. >> on the tax reform and entitlement reform he proposed that day. >> but nobody heard it. >> because the cynical media is focussed on the blocking and tackling and nuts and bolts of campaign rather than saying this is a mistake. we haven't had one discussion around this table about what was in his speech that day. >> two things. number one, it violates

political rule number one. never have an event in a room you know you can't fill. that should be sixth graders running for office should know that. and the second thing is, the second thing is, it makes people wonder. campaigns are important because people look at how you run a campaign and say, well, gosh, if he can't run a campaign, and if his people aren't smart enough to do this. >> come on. come on. i don't think most voters glean from that. i think we do around this table. i don't think most voters actually sit there saying, how did the advance team make that mistake? >> they look stupid. >> because what i'm about to show you is not going to help. and you told me the story about the one thing you were supposed to do on the family trip. the one thing, the bags and you left the kids' bags. >> your advanced team. >> i have chills right now thinking of campbell's reaction. >> yeah, the ski clothes, the diapers, everything. and i forgot --

>> trying not to pick on dan senor, i have to show you the latest quinnipiac poll out of ohio. it is 36% for santorum, 29% for romney. and 45% say they might change their mind. it's tough. >> it's tough. >> this is tough. >> it's very tough. >> his people need to get it together. >> and in a political environment where candidates can lose states and stay alive because these super pacs can keep them alive and you can have one single donor or two donors writing six and seven figure checks to a super pac and keep a candidate alive means these things can go on and on and on and on. >> it might. >> senator durbin, you had something interesting to say as you listened to mr. romney speaking. what is your former colleague's, president obama and the white house, where are they right now as they watch this race play out from the sidelines?

>> i remember bill daily was asked what he learned. he said i learned one thing, by the end of the presidential campaign, the american people know who you really are. what we see in the republican contest, 20 debates and now they've said no more exposure, please, is people know who these candidates really are. they know mitt romney now. they know newt gingrich, and they certainly know rick santorum. they are out of, i guess, the mainstream position from a democratic point of view. the polls reflect the fact that more exposure for romney is not helping. he's falling further and further behind. as the republican governor of maine said recently, we need a fresh face. we need another alternative to the three who are here. >> that would mean a brokered convention. would that be good or bad? >> it's not likely to happen. and in this day in age, not likely when you consider the limited amount of time that would be left. the amount of money that needs to be raised, the organization that needs to be put together.

but there's a royiling in the ranks of the republicans. >> all the focus is on the republican side, which is understandable, that's where the circus is right now. but on the democratic side, you've got a real reality you must be wrestling with. president obama's not raising the money he raised in 2008. he raised about $140 million so far, he raised almost $750 million last time. what's the message? reelect president obama, things could be worse? do you believe the campaign in 2012 is as strong an organization as 2008? >> it's different. it focuses on one basic thing. we have had economic growth in this country, for five straight months we've seen the unemployment rate go down. we want to continue this positive movement in the economy, creating jobs and helping businesses keep jobs right here in america and we don't really want to return to

the bush economic doctrines that brought us into the recession. and when it comes to the other cultural issues, the president is in a mainstream position here in terms of what he believes on issues as basic as women's health care and rights of privacy that americans really value in this country. and as the republicans keep talking, they're losing the center. that's where the president is gaining ground. >> all right. we still have andrea mitchell with us in washington. you're next, but first, i want to show the senator this gallup usa today poll. and factor this into the conversation, 30% of those surveyed say they are much less likely to vote for obama because of the bill while 15% say they are much more likely to vote for him because of it. so there is -- there shall some weak areas. they may be looking at the situation confidently now, but i would suggest carefully, as well. >> of course. it's a situation. we're taking nothing for granted. happy to be a co-chair of the campaign, and i believe we're moving in the right direction.

40% of the contributors are new contributors, people never given before. he has more volunteers who signed up this year than he did four years ago. we are moving with an organization below the radar at this moment in the battleground states and issues like health care. give me one or two follow-up questions, i'll turn that poll for you. when i say do you think as a family you would like to keep your child under your health insurance plan until they reach the age of 26? of course. and how about your babies, the children under 18, should they be discriminated against because of pre-existing conditions? of course not. >> but dick, don't you think the fact you're having to explain that now. doesn't that show the weakness? i think the administration's done a very good job, but i think their messaging during the last 3 1/2 years has been terrible. people don't understand that. >> would you agree with that, senator? >> i would tell you, it was a major effort, an historic effort toward health care reform.

when you get down to particulars, you know the story here. there's an image that's created, but you get down to particulars and people say i'm not giving up on that. if you're going to close the donut hole, seniors say, that's what we want, well, that's part of health care reform, are you for it? yes, i'm for it. >> why don't people understand that's in the program? >> it's in there. the president has not been on the air yet. the air waves have been dominated by the republican message makers. and we will have our day. we'll it when it's closer to the election when the impressions that are created will have an impact on the final vote. >> and the members running, not a single one ran an ad defending their vote for health care reform. they spent a lot of money -- >> and it was a mistake. i think we should have been much more forceful. >> andrea, the republican candidates are certainly blasting the president for apologizing for the koran burnings. we've got a long slog ahead, but

it seems like the president has the upper hand right now. >> the president may take some confidence, and senator durbin, i'm sure democrats in the senate take a lot of confidence from the way the debate has evolved. whether college is a good goal for american kids. but what about those events like afghanistan and gasoline prices which are global events over which the president has so little control. doesn't he have a lot of challenges going ahead going forward as the commander in chief and as the incumbent? >> andrea's right about that. but let me get back to basics. i have plenty of differences with president george w. bush. the one thing i thought he did which came through loud and clear even after the tragedy here in new york and 9/11, he said our war is not against the religion of islam, it is against those who would distort it and use it for terrorism. i thought it was an important position he took, the same position president obama is taking. now look at the lee republican

candidates scurrying to go to these talk shows on sunday to try to say, well, we're really going to broaden this battle, the inflammatory rhetoric from newt gingrich which just continues on a regular basis. president obama is showing leadership at a time when people want it. he's trying to calm a dangerous situation when we have american troops whose lives are at stake. that's what a leader does in foreign policy. doesn't run off and inflame the situation in the hopes of winning a few points back home, number one. number two, and gasoline prices, couldn't disagree with andrea more. at this point i would say gasoline prices dominated the conversation. they went up 20 and 30 cents a gallon in one week and people said what's going on. but when the president talks about holding oil companies accountable, ending their federal subsidy, i think most people say that is a reasonable position to take. >> senator this has been and continues to be a terrible week in afghanistan. so we'll ask you very bluntly, why are we in afghanistan?

>> i voted against the invasion of iraq. there were 23 of us, one republican, 22 democrats. i voted for the invasion of afghanistan, not for the longest war in american history, but to eliminate al qaeda, to go after osama bin laden. that was my goal. the goal of most of us. and now at this point in time, there's not much left of al qaeda, just in shards around the world and osama bin laden is gone. history has taught us about afghanistan, there's only one thing that brings them together, a foreign presence. that unites those tribes. and at this point, we are the outside force. >> dick, do you think we should expedite our withdrawal? i think we should get out. >> the sooner the better, ed. start bringing the troops home. >> thank you very much. it's always good to see you. >> great. thanks. coming up, from poverty to halls of the white house, douglas mckinnon reveals his long journey from a troubled

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a new report says the nypd is using undercover officers and informants to infiltrate muslim student groups on a dozen college campuses across the northeast. according to documents obtained by the associated press, officers monitored student blogs, websites, and attended events. on msnbc, howard wolfson defends the program. >> we're sitting four miles from ground zero here in the studio where 3,000 americans were killed. there have been ten plots foiled since then against this city by the nypd. the nypd is going to do everything it can within the law, within the law to protect the people who live in this city. we're going to enter into political season here in the new york where the aclu and some of the supporters who may be running for mayor or other things want to shackle the police, this mayor's not going to let that happen and i think it's a serious misread if people think we're going to shackle the police and allow terrorists to

have free reign here. >> mayor bloomberg backs wolfson's comments saying all monitoring even outside the city is "legal and appropriate." refusing to elaborate further, new york police commissioner ray kelly says "we're going to continue to do what we have to do to protect the city." andrea mitchell in washington, big picture implications to this story. >> well, it is controversial. they have actually been looking at muslim students in student groups at yale, at penn, in newark, new jersey. so going outside the state is controversial. but i think you're going to find a lot of political support in new york for this even though it does raise questions. >> look, mayor bloomberg has built one of the most robust intelligence counterterrorism structures within a police department within a metropolitan police department that exists not only anywhere in the united states, anywhere in the world.

counterterrorism intelligence capacity that deploys large numbers of police intelligence, you know, assets. here and around the world. they have stations around the world. it's like a mini cia for all the reasons that howard wolfson talked about given the threats here. and the reality is, a number of bad actors around the world have infiltrated u.s. organizations through third party groups and funded them and incubated incendiary activities. i can't speak to the actual student groups and what's happening in these particular campuses, but if they have intelligence about incitement happening in these places, you can understand they want to know about it. >> it's a p police department, ed, that's got a reputation for being aggressive. >> well, they have a perfect right to be. when you consider new york's been the target time and time and time after time. they have a perfect right.

>> there's a scary middle ground to that opinion. andrea mitchell, thank you very much. >> we have a great show today, susan rice with everything that's happening and debbie dingell talking about the open primary there. union voters, union members being encouraged to vote for santorum to try to mess up the results. david walker, and mark haleprin. >> wow, all in that one-half hour? >> that's one of those -- >> one of those -- how can i say no now? >> thank you, andrea. we're going to talk to puerto rico's republican governor and north carolina's democratic governor bev perdue. americans believe they should be in charge of their own future.

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puerto rico's republican governor who has endorsed mitt romney and the democratic governor of north carolina bev perdue. thanks for joining us this morning. good to see you. >> good morning. >> governor, i want to start with you. you have endorsed mitt romney. recent poll from univision shows among latino voters, president obama leads mitt romney head-to-head 67% to 25%. where has mitt romney gone wrong with latino voters? >> well, where has the republican party in general gone wrong that perhaps is the right question. i have been pretty vocal about it. i believe the tenner of the public discourse has been off. >> will be corrected how? because mitt romney has talked at debates about "self-deportation." how does that resinate with people in puerto rico, for example? >> of course. even though we are american citizens, but in general, for the hispanic community doesn't

resinate well. and actually, i have been quite forthcoming with all republican nominees about the need to correct our course on that, but at the same time, i must tell you in the hispanic community, there are other issues, as well, lower taxes is important, education is extremely important and faith and family, as well. >> governor perdue, i turn to you, the state of north carolina, a critical state in this presidential election. what is top of mind right now? and where are the voters inner your state sitting as they watch this republican race play out with president obama for now sitting on the sidelines watching himself. >> we are watching the republican primary with dismay or glee from whatever your perspective is. who would've thought at this time in our lives we would be talking about contraception and choice. we thought those issues were dead years ago. everybody is focused on jobs, jobs, and more jobs, that's why the president's message resinates with us. those 23 months of job growth

are really important to the state of north carolina. we are an in play state. everybody knows that. i think the enthusiasm and outpouring of support for the president is incredibly strong at this point in time and i think he's going to take the state. >> i want to drill down on this question of your party and the hispanic vote in the upcoming presidential election. why isn't your party doing more? what's their motivation for failing to do the kind of things you're talking about? and again, as specifically as you can, what would you like to say, for instance, mitt romney say on these issues different from what he's saying? >> well, i have this discussions directly with governor romney and he came out aggressively on a number of issues having to do with economy and job creation including the hispanic community and specifically in all of his initiatives, lowering taxes, bringing back fiscal responsibility to the federal level, as well, education and how important it is for our

kids -- >> governor, with all due respect, those aren't the issues you're talking about him changing course on. >> well, actually, that's exactly what he has been doing in terms of focusing on what's important. let me tell you something, when hispanics get together, it is wrong to believe that all we talk about is immigration. we talk about jobs, we talk about our kids' education, faith and family, it is wrong to believe that's all we talk about is immigration. >> governor rendell? >> well, governor, it's nice to see you, and we have governor perdue, one of the best governors in the country. governor perdue, can president obama win north carolina in november? and what does he have to do to increase his chances there? >> ed, i think he can win the state. he's resinating with middle class voters. they're in and out of the state, all parts of the administration often. and people know the name. they've got a good shop on the ground, people engaged in the reelect. and there's this sense of optimism about what his message

is. the second thing, other than middle class and jobs is his deep commitment and the first lady's commitment and jill biden's to the military. they are on and off our military campuses. they understand the end in the war of afghanistan and iraq, potential, but much deeper than that, ed, they get what it takes to be a military family. and this initiative around propping up families and assuring them good health care and retirement benefits and over to the veterans, that's a win in the south. i think that will help him pick up voters he may not have had in 2008. i'm really bullish on his chances in north carolina. >> governor perdue, you have decided not to seek reelection. some have suggested that the white house or the obama campaign nudged you into that decision. what was behind your thinking? and why are you not seeking reelection? >> well, i think if the obama white house nudged me, they would have nudged me to stay in. there were no conversations between me and the white house. kind of like joe, there comes a point in time where you just get

out. and i have been passionate about education my entire life. it's the driver for the people of my state. i believe it's the transformational difference a p life and i intend to do a lot of work of education and economic development outside of the confines of bitter partisan battles. my state is toxic right now in terms of the partisan dialec. >> thanks both for being with us. >> it's a beautiful place. i got married there. up next, the "morning joe" football frenzy with mr. roger bennett. you're watching "morning joe." ok, guys-- what's next ?

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>> renaldo. oh! did he really just do that? >> you got to be kidding me. you have to be kidding me. i mean, that is over the edge of a goal as you are ever going to see in any league.

unbelievable stuff from renaldo. >> wow. all scoring this weekend from madrid. host of men in blazers on sirius xm radio, roger bennett. >> you're here and joe was there. >> yes, he was. massive weekend of football. i hope you bailed him out this morning. i believe he behaved like any football fan. no point in going just for the game. >> you don't go just for the game. >> he'll come back speaking like christian bail. kind of like dick van dyke and mary poppins. >> liverpool is joe's team. owned by the red sox folk. they did well for joe. >> they did. the third biggest trophy in

england. all of the glory. they were playing a tiny team. aaa equivalent. liverpool at bay until the 60th minute when this man rifled home who looks like he belongs on the united nations watch list. looked like they sealed it. they were cramped but they bundled the ball over the line. equalized. the greatest moment for the city since coal was invented in 1729. the game went to penalty. something englishmen are terrible at. worse at that than dental hygiene. everyone missed. the day was done when this penalty was lost. the red sox own this. john henry, tomorrow wa warner

it home. >> in those crowded masses joe is there doing who knows what. i went to a second game? >> he went to a chelsea game. two teams from north london like each other less than israel and iran. they played 150 times since they kicked off in 1887. arsenal traditionally the more successful. this season they started as if they meant to eviscerate their opponent storming to a 2-0 lead. this game featured less defense than the nba all-star game. arsenal's stunning muscle memory kicked in. a gorgeous goal. a play that mika would love. poor guy. this is at the end of "happy feet 2" a happy moment.

>> by the way, the odds or roger clinton reference on this show today were 250 to 1. you took that bet and won. >> america playing italy on wednesday at 2:30. home are soccer and match fixing. the game will end 1-1. >> is that what we call a friendly in the business? >> it is a friendly. >> i get what he says. >> you got to do it and play it again and slow it down. >> how about playing it again backwards. it will say something. >> roger bennett, thank you, sir. coming up, rick santorum calls president obama a snob. we'll tell you why next when "morning joe" comes right back. when i grow up,

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set along with willie and me, ed rendell, mark halperin, dan senor and stan stein. the republicans are talking about the issues of afghanistan but first the latest on that. the u.s. military is pledging to push ahead with its mission in

afghanistan as officials try to contain a cycle of violence following last week's inadvertent burning of korans. nine people killed at a military airport. it's been a week since coalition forces attempted to destroy a truck load of islamic books and writings being used e ede ed bs at the base. officials didn't realize they were throwing away copies of the koran despite apologies, the backlash is unrelenting. 30 people have died in six days of protests and revenge attacks including this morning's bombing at a gates of an airport used by the international forces in the eastern part of the country. seven u.s. soldiers were wounded yesterday further north when a protester hurled a grenade at

military trainers. on saturday two u.s. military officers were murdered at pointblank range. a manhunt is under way for a person the taliban claims was working for them. let's start with jim miklaszewski with the latest and how this affects our relationship and plans to pull back with coalition forces. >> you know, this is the worst possible situation for u.s. military on the ground there in afghanistan. after all, the u.s. has to work side by side with armed afghan military and police if they are ever going to enact the withdrawal plan that's been proposed by president obama to have all u.s. troops out of there by 2014. after the shooting of the two officers at the interior ministry on saturday, both

general john allen, the top u.s. commander there in afghanistan and ambassador ryan crocker pulled all u.s. personnel out of the ministries again a critical part of any u.s. strategy if they intend to have the mission succeed there. over the weekend ambassador crocker just asked everybody to step back and take a deep breath. >> tensions are running very high here. i think we need to let the things calm down, return to a more normal atmosphere and then get on with business and it doesn't mean that we're not doing business now. we are. with both military counterparts and civilian counterparts. again, these are terrible tragedies. and very worthy of the commendation they received but this is not the time to decide that we're done here. we have got to redouble our efforts.

we've got to create a situation in which al qaeda is not coming back. >> it's difficult to see how you return to a normal atmosphere as ambassador crocker suggested there any time soon. after all, again, a key to any success there is to train up the afghan military and security forces. think of yourself, mika, or willie, as a soldier who has to work beside, fight beside and in some cases sleep beside an afghan soldier not knowing what's going on in their mind and what they may do next, willie. >> and even bigger picture here, americans watching this say this is the military. these are security forces. this is the government that we're supposed to turn ourselves over to within a couple of years. how can that ever happen with any basis of trust? >> reporter: well, u.s. military and in fact state department officials will argue that those who are killing american soldiers and others in these

demonstrations and protests representing a small minority of the overall afghan security forces and government officials working with the americans. but as we've seen here, a small minority can inflict an awful lot of damage. >> nbc's jim miklaszewski. thank you very much. to the political side of this as controversy over the burning of the korans continue, the top contenders for the republican nomination are hammering president obama for offering an apology over the incident. >> i think you highlight it when you apologize for it. you make it sound like there was something you should apologize for. there was no act that needed an apology. it was an inadvertent act and should have been left at that. >> for a lot of people this sticks in their throat that we're there having lost thousands of individuals through casualty and death. we made an enormous contribution

to help people there achieve freedom and for us to be apologizing at a time like this is something that's very difficult for the american people. >> here we go. a couple of things. your candidate is mitt romney. i'm going ask you to explain rick santorum to me because my understanding is that he's all about respect for religion. maybe that will only apply to his own? >> i think you have to -- the context of what actually happened, no one was actually at the detention center trying to disrespect religion. the situation was that the korans were being used to pass messages between inmates from one inmate to another along with other messages. they collected up a lot of this information including the korans, they threw them into a pile and someone accidentally inadvertently burned them up. it definitely was a mistake. worthy of addressing. general allen addressed it.

general allen apologizapologize. the problem is was it necessary to the president to take it to another level? the president apologizes, the department of defense sends a representative to a mosque in northern virginia to apologize. what puts people out is context in which we're in a constant stream of apologizing in this administration. there's always an apology for something america does. it was a mistake. it was actually honest mistake. the commanding general on the ground apologized. period. >> what am i missing? for example, willie, i'll let you take it because i don't want to sound too shrill, let's say the american flag was ined inadvertently burned, wouldn't it require an apology? >> americans wouldn't go in the streets and kill. you understand as someone who worked alongside wartime president, force protection. president obama will do whatever he needs to do to protect

american and nato forces on the ground even if that includes apologizing as president bush did after an incident in 2008. >> if president obama actually believes that this apology is going to tame down the violence, then of course. it's worth doing anything. that's not the case here. t the violence is still spiraling pretty much out of control right now. the bigger question is what are we going to do going forward in afghanistan? what's our strategy given events of the last few days? that's what we should be talking about and not trying to play gotcha with the republican presidential candidates as to whether or not they're going to back up the president's apology. >> how about criticizing the apology as a sign of weakness, i think, mark halperin, it's fair to say, this president has been pretty tough on foreign policy and has leverage to apologize without being criticized, what do you think? >> the country really needs to think as a collective about

what's going on in afghanistan. and dan was very measured in describing the nature of what the threshold is for an apology. i think the commander in chief deserves a lot of deference in any situation to figure out how to deal with this tough, multifacetted situation in which burning the korans is one piece but the death of servicemen is a symbolic and important moment, that's where our leaders should have their focus. >> horrific what's happened there. absolutely horrific. >> i agree with willie. i think the president did it out of a desire to tamp down all of the stuff and protect our troops and that's a proper thing for him to do. more importantly, we should start an organization called g.o.n. get out now. we're not doing any affect. the ambassador, when we leave,

al qaeda is going to come back in regardless of how long we stay. we should not risk any additional americans lives. get out now. >> we have a big primary tomorrow night. willie has the latest on arizona and michigan. then we'll take it to sam. >> michigan and arizona primaries are tomorrow. mitt romney adding to his ranks of supporters picking up support of jan brewer who will support mitt romney in that state. she did that yesterday on "meet the press." brewer called romney "the only person who can go in and win." the latest poll show romney with a big lead in arizona 43% supporting according to this you this ppp poll. in michigan, the latest poll shows romney and santorum in a statistical tie there. it appears the last couple weeks of campaigning have hurt santorum's image with michigan voters a bit. the former pennsylvania senator favorability rating dropped from

67% to 23%. that's a net decline of 29 points. 37% of michigan republicans now say they have an unfavorable view of santorum. romney took a break from campaigning in michigan to go to yesterday's showcase race. there was rain that's been postponed until today. romney got a close up view of some of the cars. look at this. photograph here. number 26 car as he walks by sponsored as you can see on the back end by rick santorum. romney's attempt to connect with the average nascar voter backfired a bit when asked by a reporter whether or not he follows the sport. romney answered this way. "not as closely as some of the most ardent fans, but i have some great friends who are nascar team owners." sam stein, let's pause there. set us up on a monday morning. where are we a day ahead of michigan and arizona? >> i think the ppp polls are generally in line of what we've been seeing for a couple days

now which is that the negative attacks in michigan have driven down santorum's numbers. romney's numbers are about the same but it looks like he's going to eke out a win there in large part because of early voting. a lot of michiganders have already voted. in arizona it will be more of a blowout which is more consequential because it's a winner take all state. the nascar comment gets at what's been the predominant theme of the last week or so which is that mitt romney continues to have these weird problems connecting with people. i know it is trivial to focus on these things. when you say you know the nascar team owners, it doesn't ring as every day man style. i think that's the big problem going forward. you saw a lot of chatter over the weekend about still people talking about brokered conventions and gop saviors and at this moment you would expect the conversation to move beyond that but the fact that we're still here gets to how weakened mitt romney is by this process.

>> mark halperin, what about the last couple weeks for rick santorum. he was there asking questions about contraception and role of church and state. what have the last two weeks meant to the this campaign? >> neither candidate are closing strong. both off message. neither talking about the economy or framing the contrast of president obama particularly well. if you're a republican, you have to be discouraged about that. if either of them were closing strong, i think you could say they would win michigan but it's impossible to say and potential of crossover voting, michigan is the only place in the country where we have seen the democrats particularly union driven can do it. that can make a difference. >> let's see if this connects, ed rendell. rick santorum talked about education. he took aim at president obama for his push to send american students to college. here is senator santorum on the campaign trail over the weekend. >> president obama once said he wants everybody in america to go

to college. what a snob. there are good decent men and women who go out and work hard every day and put their skills to test that aren't taught by some liberal college professor that are trying to indoctrinate them. i understand why you want to go to college. he wants to remake you in his image. i want to create jobs so people can remake their children into their image and not his. >> every kid doesn't want to go to college but i think we should aspire to let every child reach his or her maximum potential. if senator santorum is against that, i don't think that makes any sense. i certainly don't think the president is a snob for saying that. i think that's probably over the line. >> what a snob? >> yeah. >> ed, help me. what was that an attempt to do? i have to be very careful. i can imagine the white house

sitting back thinking this is going to be too easy. >> mika, too, is a snob. she's part of the problem. she's part of the problem that rick santorum is talking about. >> help me, ed. all right. i'll just flatly ask you. is there anything wrong with that comment by rick santorum? >> sure. first of all, this is truly a race to the bottom here in michigan. santorum hasn't been hurt by romney's negative ads. he's been hurt by himself over the last two weeks. that's clear. this is just nuts. i think what he's trying to do if he didn't have a clip in there that what happens is he quoted a percentage of college students believe less in god or religion after they have gone to college. that was sort of theme that tied it all together. but rick santorum should know better. he used an example of a plumber. today a plumber needs to know how to operate a word processor, has to know high technology and post-graduate education is

something that's crucial. every parent, every parent in america hopes their daughter or their son comes to college. it's absolutely nuts. >> it's part of the american dream. when we come back, former rnc chairman joins us and why president obama is more vulnerable than he thinks on foreign policy. also ahead, went from a childhood in extreme poverty to working in the white house as a writer for two presidents. douglas mackinnon will be here to talk about his remarkable journey. >> hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. race fans looking toward to daytona 500 yesterday. completely washed out. they'll try to do it today at noon. this radar looks like yesterday. all of the green there is the rain. daytona beach is where the 500 is located. a lot of rain to head in. the rain probably won't stop until noon to 2:00 p.m. they should have a window after that to hopefully get the race in. i wouldn't look for it to start

on time. takes two to three hours for them to dry the track. big weather story throughout the rest of the week is the storm in california moving into the central plains as a blizzard. one of the first blizzards we have seen this winter. eventually the storm will head through the great lakes and new england. there will be a lot of ice and messy, slushy snow. as far as the forecast goes for today, beautiful day from d.c. to raleigh up to baltimore, philadelphia, pittsburgh looks good. chicago. as we go toward tomorrow, we'll start to track that storm to the plains and then wednesday through new england. looks like february is going to end on a wintry note. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life.

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>> i don't step the view that my church would put the pressure on me. there's no evidence of that in the united states. the constitution is very clear. in separation of church and state and i've been very clear and precise in my commitments to that constitution. not merely because i take the oath which is taken to god but also because i happen to believe that it represents the happiest arrangement for the organization of a society. >> i don't believe in an america with a separation of church and state is absolute. the idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely

anthetical to objectives and vision of our country. to say people of faith have no role in the public square, you bet that makes you throw up. what kind of country do we live in that says people of nonfaith can come in the public square and make their case. >> that was rick santorum yesterday with his opinion of john f. kennedy's 1960 remarks on the separation of church and state. we take a live look at capitol hill on this morning. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, former chairman of the republican national committee, ed gillespie. want to talk about your article on foreign policy, how to beat obama that you wrote with karl rove saying the president is more vulnerable on foreign policy than he thinks. we'll get to that in a moment. two primaries tomorrow. i just like to ask you overall big picture, are the republicans candidates especially the front runners exactly where you would like them to be in terms of

issues and messaging at this point? >> well, in some ways yes. i think when we're talking about the economy, the need to reinvigorate job creation. we've had between 3 million to 5 million americans leave the workforce entirely since president obama took office. 1.2 million fewer americans working today. and when we're talking about proposals to invigorate the economy and have a dynamic market driven economy, we're doing well. there are other issues that intervene in campaigns obviously. >> what we're hearing is santorum on whether or not obama is a snob and colleges and both candidates criticizing the president for apologizing for the koran burnings and rick santorum's comments about separation of church and state and going after jfk. are they on mark? >> are they what? >> on mark in terms of how to position themselves. >> there's news of the day that every campaign has to react to. i do think the overarching

around this election cycle is going to be jobs and the economy. that's what's most vote determinative. at the same time there are important news events that occur as we have seen in afghanistan. they are going to respond to things the president says. i suspect the president himself doesn't believe every american should go to college by the way. i think every american should have the opportunity to go to college. i'm the first in my family first generation to have the benefit of a college education. neither of my parents did. they did pretty well for folks who didn't have a college education and i think some of these things get overblown to be honest with you. >> although i would think it's up to the candidates to take the message to where it should be and bring it back to jobs. seems like they get side-stepped. dan, would you agree? >> i think the press is consumed with this. >> it's our fault? >> it's not all your fault. there was some big issues discussed last week by a number

of the candidates on economic issues, on economic reform which got eclipsed by these particular issues that we're talking about right now. >> dan, that's not an excuse. >> i'm not saying it's an excuse. it's a reality. >> if you are a candidate, it's very easy to take a question and turn it because you're in control. you're asked about god and college. you say, look, let's focus on what's really important to the voters of michigan. let's talk about the economy. boom. >> but not to draw on this point because eddie has an important piece on foreign policy to get to but i would say the press keeps saying these candidates. why do you keep talking about the issues? the press keeps asking about the issues. >> they are in control. they can pivot and talk about what they want. that's a great thing about being a candidate for a major office. >> ed gillespie, you have experience in this. you say the president is strikingly vulnerable in the

area of foreign policy. take it away. >> in the middle east america is less respected today. when you look at public polls of people in the middle east and when president bush was in office, he was going to have a reset with russia. how is putin doing and how is that relationship going? not very well. he was going to meet without precondition with leaders of cuba and iran and venezuela and syria. how are things in syria today? not better than when president obama took office. he said that iran was a tiny country that didn't pose a serious threat. where is that today? i do think that while this campaign is going to be driven largely and votes will be determined largely by economic issues as karl and i wrote and there's going to be a period here in the late spring, early summer, where it is important for our nominee to set the stage in terms of foreign policy and national security issues and demonstrate to the american people the kind of leadership our nominee would provide if

elected president and president obama is incredibly vulnerable in this area. they have one talking point on it that they cite over and over again, which is the death of osama bin laden. happy about that. glad that it was the right decision by the president but that is not -- that does not a foreign policy make. i do think that the critique here for this president shows he is very vulnerable on this issue. >> it's willie geist. good morning. your second step on how to defeat obama. the republican candidate must condemn the president's drawdown in afghanistan. what do you see especially given the last week of what we've all seen around the world in afghanistan that leads to you believe staying there longer would somehow improve conditions in a way that having been there for the last ten years has not. >> well, what i would point to is what we saw with the surge. we also noted in that piece that we should commend president obama for the surge in afghanistan and the surge was working in afghanistan.

it was the announcement of a precipitous drop in troop strength in afghanistan that has contributed to the environment that we're seeing today and images on our television screens because al qaeda and the taliban understand that there's a short time window here and that americans are leaving without having had the opportunity to establish a stable environment and stable government in afghanistan, which we were well on our way to doing. >> ed, when would be a good time for the united states to leave? how will we know? will it be a good time in a couple years or 10 years or 20 years? >> it's not the kind of thing you pull a dart at a calendar which is what you get the impression that president obama did with that dart landing in advance of november of this year. i would listen to ambassador crocker and to the generals on the ground and others but having an opportunity for al qaeda to

establish a presence and safe haven for the taliban to r re-emerge there is not in the national interest. >> you were doing okay until you said we haven't had an opportunity to do what we need to get done. we've been there for ten years. we lost well over 1,000 men and women. how long an opportunity do you want? >> well, governor, surely you would agree that things were improving with the surge. do you believe the surge was making things better in afghanistan in terms of our national security presence there? >> in a limited military sense. when we leave, when we leave after the surge, it's going to be the same as if we had left four years earlier or four years from now. nothing is going to change. if you know about afghanistan, you know nothing is going to change. >> well, your premise seems to be that if we didn't maintain that presence, maintain the surge and in the same way we did in iraq, use it with the military gains that you cite to

help foster gains in civil society and in the government, you know, that couldn't have happened. i don't agree with that. it's one of those things where we'll now see whether or not president obama's bet works. we'll be better off as a nation and we'll be more secure as a country here and in the region with this withdrawal of troops now than we were when we had the troop presence there. >> you know, you cite in this article some of the issues where obama has actually done the right thing. he said he ran saying he'll close gitmo within a year. he hasn't closed it. he took a strong line to appeal to the left on legal issues surrounding the war on terrorism and abandoned most of them. do you think the better way to go with him is to basically say all these arguments that were the centerpiece of your campaign on foreign policy in 2008, you actually discarded and flipped on or is it better to focus on issues where he failed like

iran? >> i think it's actually both. i think we ought to note that in fact the promises and criticisms of president bush that he delivered so vigorously in 2008 that he abandoned once he got to the oval office and saw what president bush saw in terms of our national security interest related to these policies, we should commend him for that. and give him credit where credit is due. at the same time, i think when you look at his policy toward israel, his policy toward iran, his policy toward syria, his policy toward russia, the fact is that he's not improved things and the policy that he pursued and said he would pursue and did have made us less secure as a nation and made the world a more dangerous place. >> all right. ed gillespie, thank you so much. it's good to have you on the show. come back. coming up, former presidential writer douglas mackinnon talks

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>> 37 past the hour. a beautiful morning in

washington. welcome back to "morning joe." with us now, former white house writer and former director of communications and former senator to bob dole, douglas mackinnon. a rolling pennies in the dark. a memoir with a message. an incredible story. your story. thank you so much for sharing it and for being here this morning. >> thank you for having me. it's an honor. it really is. >> you write a deeply personal account of dealing up with a mentally unstable mother. it goes downhill from there. first of all, what is the message and why did you decide to put all of this on paper? >> well, i have written about it in the past for a number of different papers from "the new york times" to "l.a. times" and every time i wrote one of these columns, someone would ask me to try to articulate my life, my childhood in a larger way. that's ultimately what i decided to do. as corny as it sounds, i believe that my story can help not only

kids going through tough times and poverty but a lot of adults too. so for me the insanity by the time i was 17 we moved 34 times. every time was an eviction. many times he went from the horrible home into living into a car, living in a tent. it just sort of never stopped. >> my husband has a very similar background. moved so many times as well. he never knew what tomorrow held in a situation like that with a parent that struggles with mental disorders. i'm going to read an account that crystallizes from the book the situation you were in. our intoxicated mother had marched the three of us out into what passed for a living room in a cardboard and tar paper shack we were existing in. she assembled us like an audience on the broken yellow sofa and said i'm going to kill myself now and it's all your father's fault. after the announcement and sure

we were looking at the tragedy playing out before us, she took a bottle of sleeping pills out of her purse and swallowed the entire contents using vodka as the lubricant. three kids. >> older brother and younger sister. >> that passage hits you like an upper cut when you read the book and you wonder to yourself how do you get from the kids on that yellow couch to the oval office writing for ronald reagan. >> it's a strange journey to be sure. a few weeks after that my mother also took a .45 and emptied nine bullets into our bedroom. fortunately for us we were actually sleeping on a dirty mattress on the floor and we didn't have a bed to sleep on so the bullets came into our bedroom at about bed height. had we been in a normal bed, it would have been a tough situation. so it's unusual in how you go from that. obviously you never apply for that kind of job. i started getting interested in politics at a young age coming from the heart of boston in dor

che dorchester. my family worshipped president kennedy. my grandfather worked for him and i have a nice complete the circle story and chapter in the book and myself with john k. kennedy, jr., and my grandfather talki ining about helping his d. i knew the situation we were in wasn't good for anyone going through poverty. we had government assistance. we had sort of the government cheese. we had government peanut butter and things that humiliate you when you go through that. your husband may have gone through some of these same things. i just figured out a way how can i get pasta and how can i try to learn from the experience and grow and obviously sort of the biggest game in town when you go through this is the government. one way or another how do you try to effect what the government does and so many people on both sides of the aisle say they really do care about the poor and they understand the issue but in reality they don't.

it sort of becomes important as we know every two or four years during an election cycle and people forget about it. these people aren't going anywhere. the situation is getting worse many times. i had a fairly unique story and i thought it might be worthwhile telling it. >> what was the process like trying to write this and trying to put this down? >> it was more difficult than i thought it would be honestly because you sort of tear off the scabs and relive issues one more time. i had to talk to my older brother and younger sister who went through this with me to get their permission and make sure they got through it. >> do you love your mother? >> she was an amazingly talented person. interior decorator. artist. unfortunately for her, her mother was in the exact same situation so my ma and pa at the same age and her mom was a severe alcoholic. she came into life almost unfortunately behind the eight ball because of the situation she grew up in.

>> what's your message to a kid watching or kid you go out and speak to today who is sitting on that yellow couch without any hope? >> don't give up. when you grow up in poverty, many times your obviously your entire family is poor. many times because of the situation you're in, everybody in your neighborhood is poor and there's a lot of dysfunction but don't make the person in the mirror your number one enemy. realize that you can go through it and when you go through the situation, you are surrounded by so many negativity and block it out and believe in yourself and i never would have imagined in a million years i would end up in the white house sharing stories and ronald reagan and i talking about our alcoholic fathers in the oval office and both of us crying in the oval office and how do you get from that yellow sofa to the oval office. >> the book is called "rolling pennies in the dark." come back soon. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

>> and a way of managing. the management is a problem because they are one by one. not like apartment houses. i would load up on them. i would take mortgages out at very low rates. it's a way in effect to shorten the dollar. you can take a 30-year mortgage and turns out your interest rate is too high next week you refinance lower and if it turns out it's too low, the other guy is stuck with it for 30 years. >> warren buffett bullish on the housing market just this morning on cnbc. let's check business before the bell with cnbc's brian shactman. good morning. >> let's stick with buffett for a second. he's sort of our e.f. hunton.

we listen to everything he says. we heard people talk about mortgages they would buy a huge swath of properties if they knew how to manage them. set up a company. not one big apartment complex. they are all over the place. he said 35% corporate tax rate is not strangling competitiveness in this country. he does not think unemployment will go back up to 9%. he says u.s. banks are arguably in the best shape they've ever been. and also we talked about oil and gas prices. the national average for gas at 3.69. he says oil prices won't derail the economic kicker. he says business leaders like him shouldn't put political beliefs in a blind trust as long as it doesn't compromise the corporate responsibility. one of the few out there that will publicly on the democratic side. that's where his loyalties lie and a lot of his responses sort of dovetail that. if oil won't derail the economy, so that's good for the democrats. 9% unemployment won't get there,

it's good for the democrats. you have to put it through that lens again. >> he said leave the corporate tax rate at 35% because the president just last week offered to drop it to 28. >> it's a delicate nuance. he says as it stands it's not strangling our competitiveness. he's good enough with words not to go against obama. >> a lot to sift there. coming up next, the big moments from last night's oscars including angelina jolie's leg. >> just one? okay. ♪ ♪ what started as a whisper every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing.

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a direct line during the oscars. it's a night nevertheless. >> missing part of the ceremony a frenchman said he loved america. he did last night. >> all right. i think we've answered the next question. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today.

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stapes. that was easy. the question is did we learn anything? willie? >> i learned if you invite sasha barron cone to the oscars you may get ashes dumped on you if you are ryan seacrest. >> i learned that she has bradley cooper's e-mail. >> i think, no, i don't think you envy me. that's nice. thank you. >> roger bennett talk